Ninerdome: Hostler, Stay or Go?
We are adding a new feature here, called Ninerdome. Our version of Thunderdome, where as we all know, two men enter - one man leaves. Each week we’ll try and ask a question and have two staff writers battle it out in the Ninerdome. One will be on the pro side and one on the con side. First up in the Ninerdome is Matt Gagnon against Nick Newton.
Question posed, Hostler, should he stay or should he go?
Matt Gagnon
No coach should be fired after two games – ever.
Lets use a good example and take a look at last year’s Super Bowl winner – the Indianapolis Colts. In the 2006 season, there were a number of occasions the Colts, who we all consider a high octane offense, looked anemic on offense. For example, in week 5 they scored 14 points and looked confused against the Titans. In week 10, they scored 17 points and squeeked out a 1 point win against the Bills, their offense again looking quite sad. The following week, they scored only 14 points against a rather pedestrian Cowboys defense, losing the game. In week 13, they again looked terrible against the Titans, scoring only 17 points, losing by a field goal. Then, the week after, they AGAIN scored only 17 points as they were blown out by 30 points.
So, where am I going with this? The Colts have had the same system and the same playcalling for years. They had what most consider the best quarterback in the league. They had at least three deadly wide receivers. They had a dynamic rushing attack. They had one of (if not THE) best offensive lines in football.
Yet – they still found a way to score only 14, 17, 14, 17, and 17 points in 5 of their games. That’s basically 1/3 of their season. Indeed, three of those games happened in a four week span. Hell, in week 5 Peyton Manning had only 166 passing yards, 1 TD and 2 INTs. In that stretch of bad games, he had multiple games with a QB rating in the 60s. This is your Super Bowl winning offense folks.
So, in short, two games is not enough to really judge anything in the least. We’re talking about a first year signal caller, with a team made up almost exclusively of players in their first, second or third year in the league.
Am I disappointed? Yes. I’ve been quite vocal about being concerned that Mike Nolan is actively trying to replicate a success he has seen first hand – that of the 2000 Baltimore Ravens – with a bland, conservative offense that is really meant to burn the clock and wear the opponent out, scoring just enough points to win. I had hopes the 49ers were attempting to replicate the 90s Cowboys or 2000s Patriots by crafting a team with balance, and a dynamic offense that could throw for 200 and rush for 100 like clockwork. That’s not too much to ask, is it?
I sincerely hope that is what he’s trying to do, because no NFL dynasty has been built on conservative “don’t lose it” offenses. Sure, the occasional Super Bowl winner will have an offense like that, but they are usually perennial disappointments that luck out for a year (Ravens, Bucs), not transcendent franchises that dominate for a decade or more.
Regardless, you will not find Matt Gagnon calling for the removal of Hostler at all this year. Nope – I’m giving him the entire 16 game schedule to see what he can do. He’s off to a bad start in my eyes, but so what? The defense of the 2006 49ers got off to a MUCH worse start last year – MUCH worse, and look how they ended up. They put it all together and were rolling by the end of the year. I’m holding my breath than Alex Smith will start throwing for 200-300 yards regularly by somewhere in the middle of the year. I expect Hostler’s “figuring it out” period may cost us a game or two, but hopefully that will allow us to dominate as the year wears on. I’ve got my finger’s crossed.
And so, I’m skeptical, I’m annoyed, I’m worried. But I’m not irrational. Hostler stays.
Nick Newton
While it’s the truth that no coach should be fired after two games, here are a few reasons why I think Hostler will eventually cost us enough games to be replaced.
The Colts may have looked weak a couple of times on offense in a few games last season, thats true. But not once do I ever remember them running the ball three consecutive downs with two plus minutes left in the game and giving the ball back to a high powered Rams offense who nearly took advantage of it. Several times on third and manageable last week against the Rams, Hostler ran the ball when it was clear that St. Louis had our number on the run. Perhaps if we had the Colts talent in the receiving ranks and QB position then we could afford a few off games here and there. But we don’t, and we can’t.
Comparing the Colts to the Niners is like comparing apples and oranges. Not only are the Colts deeper and more talented at nearly every offensive aspect (save for RB), but their playcalling is definitely more aggressive. I think we’re looking at a problem with deficiency of situational strategy know how, compounded with an offensive coordinator that, quite frankly, is out of his league. Hostlers playcalling is too conservative and antiquated, and his inexperience and lack of knowledge is what will cost us the season, and him his job.
Matt gave the example of the 2006 defense, and how they got off to a rough start and then came together. He’s forgetting one important detail. Nolan is to defenses what Norv turner was to our offense. Both have the unsurpassed ability to extract an astonishing amount out of less than superstar squads. Hostler does not, and will never.
I’ll leave you with one final thought. Before Norv Turner left, the offense was on fire. Now, less than a year later, a different coordinator with the same personell and even a gob of added talent, the offense stinks. Norv turner left a model for Hostler to follow, but hes not following it. With the way the defense is playing, the weak state of the NFC, and the actual talent we have on offense, this team could go deep into the playoffs with the right coordinator.
I do agree with Matt on one issue. I do hope I am totally wrong and it straightens itself out.
Filed Under: News
There are a lot of ways that this can all play out in the draft, knowing how bad we need ...
SHITHEAD rightly said! 
he isnt leaving under his own power....Jed and the rest of the front office are making him quit. 
this guys a real dipshit and i hoped he would be gone, but not right before the draft, even if ...
Vote for Frank for ground player and P willis for rookie at nfl.com
I vote for Nick Newton. he makes some excellent points and can kick the ball really far.
Everyone is upset with hostler right now and i cant blame anyone at all. Our offense has looked terrible. But play calling I do not believe can all be put on hostler as im sure nolan is giving him play calling ideas for each play. Also keep in mind its not like hostler has been doing this for years at this or another level. He has NEVER been an OFF. Coordinator . Give the guy a break. First few games he’s gotta be feeling things out.
After 2 weeks people jumping on him already common people show a little patience. Now if by week 6 we’re still this bad on offense then i could understand going at him. Just give guy a chance. I’m sure nolan is keeping an eye on him as well keeping it a little conservative. Don’t think that nolan isn’t helping hostler a little with play calling.
Just give hostler till week 6 thats 4 more weeks .. if by then he can’t open up the offense then everyone has a reason to jump on him. and he’ll be out of a job in the offseason.
And a win is still a win in the end. I don’t care if we put up 50 points a game or 17. If we win the game it doesn’t matter how much you win by.
He has got to got, are offence will go nowhere with him callin the plays. how is alex smith suppose to improve with an ediot callin the shots. all he calls is running plays and short drop passes. PUSSEY!!
The niners are 2-0, what else do all the fans want?
Hostler is a first time OC, give him some time. Mike is right, wait till week 6 then, by then we will have a better how good or bad Hostler is.
if its not straight by pittsburg we’re in trouble-i hope we can generate at least 17pts offensively and maybe our d can take one to the hizzy
We are 2-0 and both wins are divisional wins. Its not the coachs fault that our line is getting beat to the punch more times then none, Gore hasnt had many open lanes, Alex has to improvise on the run, no pocket help, and there have been some oportunities for the recievers to make catchs. We are winning, by the suprise of all. If you want to critise anyone then critise yourself for not having faith in us getting better. WE ARE 49ER FAITHFUL.
“But not once do I ever remember them running the ball three consecutive downs with two plus minutes left in the game and giving the ball back to a high powered Rams offense who nearly took advantage of it.”
That was Nolan’s decision, he said so in his press conference on Monday.
Alex Smith needs more timing plays. This will open up the running holes. Why are we not involving Vernon more? Even if you throw to double coverage…at least throw his way… Come on Hostler?
stay, trust in nolan 49ers rule GO NINERS!!!!!!!!
Nolan wasn’t on the 2000 Ravens team that won the superbowl. I wish you would all stop making references to that. It seems to me you are all pointing fingers at the coaches. The real culprits here are the players on the field and their lack of execution. We are seeing the same 8-man fronts and the same blitz happy defenses. Whenever Hostler has tried to throw the ball it just hasn’t been succesful. Vernon Davis is full of s–t if he thinks he’s open on every play. Just because there is no one directly in front of you doesn’t mean you are open. They are bracketing him and sitting on his routes because he stops at the end of them and waits for Alex to throw it. The stupid thing about all the criticism is that the offense is just what it was last year. It’s not like he took a great offense and turned it into crap. It was all Frank Gore last year and at the very least Hostler is trying to get away from that and create more balance. By the way, Hostler does call deep passing plays but our pedestrian receivers aren’t getting open and even when Alex throws it deep they have either dropped the ball or fumbled it. I love Battle but on a good offense he would be the third reciever and we just aren’t there yet. Darrell Jackson isn’t going to scare anybody we play into double covering him. He’s a good receiver but he’s not a threat as the #1 receiver. Lelie is the only real deep threat we have and he isn’t even on the field. It’s time to look at the players on the field. They just aren’t executing the plays. You all are asking Hostler to play Bill Walsh with an offense made of spare parts and young players.
As for the comparison to the Ravens. I actually made that comparison on another question without seeing all the others saying the same thing. It just seems to fit.
And Nolan has admitted to calling the 3 runs in a row, which is what scares me.
Yes I’m so happy with a win. But I want more. Like Newton said, we have added so much talent after last years impressive advances in offense. It’s just frustrating not seeing much if any at all…
I also agree 2 games is not a good reference for firing. Give him a chance. But all our complaints I feel are valid. SHOW US some offense!!!!
Deefnse has bent at times but come up solid. (Albiet with 3 new offensive lineman and 2 backup corners for the Rams)
As a faithful from the 70s, I’m always going to stick with the Niners the same way I stick to the SF Giants. But after the previous few futile years…we have some talent and we want it to gell faster!!!!!
Besides…I’m getting older… and yelling at the TV may cause a heart attack if this continues…lol
It’s not Hostler, if you’re gonna blame a coach. It’s Nolan. It was his idea not to pass for the last half of the fourth quarter. Nolan thinks the Super Bowl Ravens is his kind of offense.
Minor blame to Smith for not finding open receivers, major blame of the O-line, which was supposed to be the strength of the offense this year. Until that’s fixed don’t expect much of a passing game, or much of a running game either.
Why is everybody upset about the 3 consecutive run plays. Those were not as much of a concern as the other play calls during the game. Double reverses to sub-par receivers instead of calling plays for Vernon?! We got the turnover in Rams territory, and on 1st down we pass!!? Run that ball, take time off the clock and score. Instead Smith cant avoid a blocked defender and gives up the ball. Did anyone see a screen pass the whole game? It is clear that Hostler cannot call plays in a way that keeps a D off balance. They recognized or formations, and down and distance tendencies. Quite easily. Shame on Hostler.
cowboys got tank johnson.. i think we shouldve got him instead… fuck
i understand the Niners had to run out the clock, but at least throw in a trick play Hostler! you don’t run up the middle every single down!! the niners should have had ALOT MORE yardage against the rams.
did Willis win Rookie of da week n week 1?? thankz
Point, Gagnon.
Maybe it was the luxury of going first, but I give my vote (whether you want it or not) to Matt. He raised ok points, and had the easier argument, but Nick’s argument only tried to invalidate Matt’s points, and then he did not create any of his own until the “final thought.”
-Trash
Willis won week 1 now lets help him win week 2 baby!
hey i wonder where that faggot ass rams fan is… wheres all ur shit talkin now son??? true we barely won but still we beat u guys in ur house and we’ll defintly kick dat ass in ours
This is a make or break week for ole’ Hostler because if he pulls that stuff that he brought to St. Louis then we are going to get beat convincingly. SO….either he is incredibly dumb or increbibly smart. What I mean by that is…maybe he is playing lame duck and will open the playbook. That is a sure way to catch a first year coach by surprise in his house. However, if the niners don’t open up the playbook then it is time to make some changes because that conservative, limited play calling business isn’t going to get us more than eight wins at the max.
did someone say that ESPN was hatin on the niners?sayin that we couldn’t beat Notre Dame.first of all that would be pretty sweet if they played eachother(my fav. teams)and secondly anyone can beat Notre Dame,even the school for the blind.
I think we all miss Norv Turner.Norv you shouldn’t had left.honestly you stink as a head coach.
true that KR3W, true that.
i think the line should go out and get the yardage needed to retain and run out the clock when given that confidence
Yoooo, where the hell is Ashley Lelie? Taylor Jacobs is nowhere to be found. Get Lelie on the freakin field man!!!
We have to give Hostler a chance 2 games both that by the way we won hes a Nolan guy. HEY ADAM IM TIRED OF PICKING ON D. SMITH WE SHOULD TURN ARE ATTENTION TO TAYLOR JACOBS WHERES LELIE? U MIGHT EVEN AGREE WITH ME ON THIS ONE MAYBE WE COULD GET GILMORE BACK FROM HIS CAR WASH JOB IN RICHMOND TO RETURN PUNTS CAUSE I HOLD MY BREATH EVERYTIME WILLIAMS CATCHES THE BALL.
SORRY GUYS ONE MORE COMMENT WHY CANT WE FIND WAYS TO GET DAVIS THE BALL REMEMBER BRENT JONES HE USED TO BE WIDE OPEN RIGHT DOWN THE MIDDLE OF THE FIELD ALL THE TIME. I SAY FIRST PLAY OF THE STEELERS GAME WE THROW A DEEP PASS HOPEFULLY D. JACKSON DOESNT DROP IT.
JNova80 -
I’m the other Niner fan living in VA Beach… we talked before about the Carolina game. Where do you watch the games? I watch them at “R” Bar and Grill (formerly Hometown Heroes) on Shore Dr. A real good place, but there’s too many Steeler fans there. We need to get some more Niner fans there to represent this Sunday!
I blame the o-line for the bad offense if they play good in pittsburgh we’ll have a chance
Ryan…Here’s to hoping you’re correct. That WOULD be great to be holding back…. doubt it, but hey? We have to hope it’s true!!!
C’MON Niners, get that offense in gear!!!!
Hostler’s doing a really good job at calling pays. we can’t be sitting here blaming Hostler for the bad offensive production. The offense is just not executing. Missed blocks by the offensive line is not Hostlers fault, the 2 dozen dropped balls by the receivers isn’t Hostlers fault , and the 2 fumbles by A.Smith are not Hostlers fault. If you think about it A.Smith and Hostler aren’t having a bad year at all. If the receivers would start catching what’s thrown to them there would be alot more offensive production. And i’m sick of hearing how were gonna miss Norv Turner. The last time I checked LaDanian Tomlinson isn’t doing crap with Norv’s offense, and were 2-0 and there 1-1. Things will come together for us, there is no doubt in my mind.
So, let me get this straight.
Adam thinks Hostler has called a good game.
Adam thinks Derek Smith is a good linebacker.
*long pause*
Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah…
Norv Turner’s “much better” offense averaged 18.6 points per game for an entire 16 game season last year.
Hostler’s offense is averaging 18.5. And he’s meeting Norv’s average with fewer yards. An entirely weak argument.
This is Hostlers’ first year leave him alone and let’s stop making excuses for ourselves. We are 2-1, it’s time for some Butthawks ass kickin! I guarantee a win this week by at least 7 points, the offense WILL open up. Don’t forget, WE ARE THE SAN FRANCISCO 49ERS!!!!